Tuesday, November 10, 2009

J-10 and 4th Generation news

As part of the 60th anniversary of PLAAF, we have received a lot of new recently on the latest additions to PLAAF. Most of our information basically comes from 2 videos here and here.

A lot of interesting things were brought up here regarding J-10 and the 4th generation fighter jet project. If you don't already know, 3rd generation in China is 4th generation in the West and 4th generation in China is 5th generation in the West. In the videos, J-10 was mentioned as transforming China from cloning aircraft to developing its own aircraft. The emphasis was on finally being able to produce a home grown 3rd generation fighter for PLAAF. Some basic stats of J-10 included take-off distance of 350 m, having 11 hard points and payload of 6 tonnes. The pictures introducing J-10 to the August 1st flight demonstration team is as follows:

It had additional stats like length of 16.43 m, width of 9.75 m, height of 5.43 m, normal take-off weight of 12.4 ton (not really sure what the configuration is), maximum speed of mach 2.0 and operation ceiling of 18000 m. I think the maximum speed is probably higher than that from previous articles, but we probably will need to wait longer for complete information to come out.

In the videos, they said that J-10, J-11 and J-8 are the main force of PLAAF for the time being. 3rd generation fighter is already the main force of PLAAF. They also said that 4th generation fighter will make its first flight soon. After the first flight, it will begin test flight program. It can join service in 8 to 10 years. 4th generation fighter jet program have already been in development for a while, many parts have already achieved breakthrough like large turbofan engine, stealth technology and electronics. The goal of this plane is to reach the level of F-22. The videos say that J-10 is on par with the best of 3rd generation fighter jets, so China's 4th gen plane should also be expected to be on par with the best of 4th generation fighter jets world wide. The news of 4th generation fighter jets came from the deputy commander of PLAAF, so it should be considered pretty solid.

Below are photos from the TV shows showing possible look of the 4th generation fighter.



16 comments:

platensimycin said...

Canard is an extremely efficient way to make an aircraft maneuverable

but

at the same time it's extremely difficult to incorporate canard into low observable design. It causes RCS "flare" whenever the foreplane moves.

Feng said...

the part about canards increasing RCS is not necessarily true. At least according to the Chinese aerospace personnels.

Mike said...

Well, both the Typhoon and Rafale have canards and are considered to be very stealthy for being 4.5 gen fighters so I assume it can be done although a bit more tricky.

hbogyt said...

Feng. What is the maximum range of the newest HQ-9?

Some Indians and Russians are so stupid. They claim that the best radar China has is the one on their Su-30MKK. How idiotic is that!

Dutchman said...

The pictures of the 4th Gen aircrafts look a lot like the F-22 of the US.

Dutchman said...

The pictures of the 4th Gen aircrafts look a lot like the F-22 of the US.

Eric Z said...

Well the 4th gen pictures of course are CGI, and are hardly official.. (They are obviously done by people speculating what the 4th gen plane may look like and the only obvious way to draw one is by basing off existing 5th gen planes... It hardly means that China will be copying the F-22 if that's what you're implying)

But that's not to say that the real 4th gen fighter won't look like the F-22, in fact I would be surprised if any future 5th/4th generation fighters from any country didn't look like the F-22.

platensimycin said...

If i were the Chinese, i would build a series of F22 mock up, study it, and use the experienc from Su27/30 and J10/JF17 to come out with a structural model, refine it and come out with my own prototype.

Modern day computer-aided design process means a lot of study, trials n' errors and prototyping can be done beforehand. BTW, F22 is aerodynamically a delta with tailplane:

http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/photos/runlikehell/images/16406/f-22.jpg

It wouldn't be that inconceivable to design a F22 derivative [without tailplane] with canard. With thrust-vectoring, there's little point for American Raptor to sport a pair of canard foreplane.

Feng said...

well, a lot of models I guess look like F-22, but actually have a lot of differences. People just see the shape of the head of the fighter, the wings and the V shaped tail and think it looks the same, but there are much more to it. And also, I don't think this will actually be what the 4th gen fighter looks like.

platensimycin said...

F22's frontal section is optimized for three purposes: minimal RF signature, maximal internal volume, optimal [perfect parametic] visual field.

In short, it's the crown jewel of the VLO fighter jet's design.

Eric Z said...

Feng if you could hazard a guesstimation, what do you think the 4th gen fighter would look like?
From various places I have a canard/delta (or trapezoidal wing) twin engine fighter, with a DSI intake in my mind.
Or is it impossible to speculate what the 4th gen plane may look like at this time?

platensimycin said...

Forward-swept wings?

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=awst&id=news/CHINA111309.xml&headline=China%20Close%20To%20Testing%20Next-Gen%20Fighter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward-swept_wing

Type99 said...

hbogyt

Ausairpower, I use for information on Chinese and Russian systems. Just google it.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-PLA-IADS-Radars.html

Russian defence industry have a gripe with China, understandable, Indians I dont know what their problem is. Their own military is rejecting their weapons systems for foreign stuff.

Gopala Krishna said...

It looks like a clone of the YF-23 Black Widow. Canards are the only addition. Well, the SAC deign is a copy of F-22 and CAC design is a copy of YF-23. LOL!

Stealth fighters do not necessarily need super manovuerability. There built to be stealthy killers nit dogfighters . So canards wouldn't be such a good idea.

Feng said...

to eric in response to "From various places I have a canard/delta (or trapezoidal wing) twin engine fighter, with a DSI intake in my mind. "
I think those are the things that are talked about now and also leading edge extension. PLAAF is really impressed by the maneuverability of the super hornet at low speeds.

MAB said...

Feng: Do you have any details on the updated FC-20 (export model on the J-10 for Pakistan Air force) specs.