Back when J-10 first came out, there were a lot of skepticism about its capabilities and deployment status. Even though the first J-10 regiment achieved operational status by 2004, many people questioned its status until it was officially declassified in late 2006. At the same time, I read many reports about its successes in exercises against different flanker variants. Most people were rightfully skeptical toward such reports. As time went on, it became more and more obvious that J-10 was taken over the reign as the backbone of PLAAF from flankers. Even now, we still often read reports about J-10s crushing flankers and J-8s in different training exercises. Even with all of its successes, the J-10 program still has experienced some stumbles along the way. I think most people would agree that propulsion is the biggest bottleneck for J-10. Due to lack of available domestic options and the Western arms embargo, China was forced to select AL-31FN as the powerplant. After the initial batch for J-10 prototypes, China has since placed orders for batches of 54, 100 and 122 AL-31FN engines for production variants. Many of us thought WS-10A might be available after the second batch of engines, but its production problems in the past 2 years have been well documented. As a result, China had to make that third purchase in 2009 for 122 AL-31FN costing $500 million. Due to the delays in WS-10A, J-10 production basically came to a standstill for most of 2008 and early part of 2009. Although, it is believed that some of the first product batch of J-10s delivered to 44th division were brought back to CAC to be upgraded to the latest configurations. From the first 154 AL-31FNs, CAC delivered J-10s for FTTC (60x8x), 131st regiment of 44th division (50x5x), 8th regiment of 3rd division (10x4x), 5th regiment of 2nd division (10x3x) and 2nd regiment of 1st division (10x2x). After signing the 3rd AL-31FN contract, CAC produced a 4th batch of J-10s to 70th regiment of 24th division (30x5x) and the special August First flight demonstration squad of 24th division. In this past year of 2010, CAC produced a 5th batch of J-10s of 37 single seaters + a good number of twin-seaters to fully convert the 25th regiment of 9th division (20x0x) and a good portion of the 12th regiment of 4th PLANAF division (83x4x). Since late last year, we have started seeing test trials of a 6th batch of J-10s from CAC. This batch will most likely be delivered to fill the 12th regiment of PLANAF and also convert a new PLAAF regiment. I think this will be the last batch of J-10s that can be produced from the third AL-31FN contract. Here is a breakdown of production J-10s at the moment:
- 6 PLAAF regiments (28 J-10s each 6 x 28 = 168)
- 12 J-10s serving in the August First demonstration squad
- Around 16 J-10s serving in the FTTC aggressor squad
- 10 to 20 J-10s serving in the 12th regiment of PLANAF
So, where does the J-10 program go from here? Some fans are already gushing over the first flight of J-20 and about ready to stop J-10 production very soon. Some question whether or not J-10B is needed at all. I definitely think those talks are crazy. China will have many J-7 regiments retiring in the coming years. I think some regiments will not be replaced, but PLAAF also does not want the fleet to shrink that much. I have brought up the talk of using JF-17 to fill a good number of the third tier regiments, but J-10s are still needed to replace more strategically located J-7 regiments. CAC has shown that it can mass produce J-10s at relatively low cost of less than 200 million RMB. Until J-20 joins service, J-10 and J-11 will form the core of PLAAF. Even though J-10 is smaller and cheaper than J-11, it has been the more capable air defense fighter jet. Therefore, even after J-20 becomes available, J-10 should still be continually produced. As we saw with J-7, CAC kept producing newer variants for PLAAF until at least 2007 even though J-10 was already operational with several regiments. So I think different variants of J-10s will be produced for the foreseeable future. In the immediate future, CAC will finish the 6th batch of J-10s to fully convert the 12th regiment of PLANAF and possibly fully convert another PLAAF regiment. I think this should be the end of J-10/A production run (about 240 to 250 using 276 AL-31FNs).
After this point, I think the production should shift to J-10Bs. We’ve seen the Y-8 radar test bed recently testing with what appears to be the nose of J-10B, so all signs are pointing toward J-10B production starting sometimes late this year or early next year. As stated before, J-10B should represent quite an improvement over J-10A when it comes to new avionics architecture, latest range of sensors (AESA radar, IRST and MAWs), new generation of MMI and more integrated EW installations. It should also have better multi-role capability and be able to fire all of the latest generation of AAMs, AGMs and PGMs (many shown in Zhuhai Airshow). The other question with J-10B and future J-10 variants is how it will move into the future world of stealth fighters. Clearly, future J-10 variants can be designed to have reduced signature like hornets to super hornets or eagle to silent eagle, but it cannot be redesigned into a LO aircraft. In fact, we are already seeing some greater consideration for stealth on J-10B when it comes to greater usage of composite material, integrated IRST/ECM, LPI radar and adoption of DSI inlet (although this could be more of a weight/subsonic performance vs supersonic performance tradeoff). There are also plenty of claims on Chinese forums that J-10B has also adopted plasma stealth, but I do not know how I can verify that. The other question is what engine will be used by future J-10s. Will China make a new large order for AL-31FN or will WS-10 series finally reach acceptable performance/reliability level to be installed on J-10B? We will have to keep the wait and see approach to find out. I would say that at least one more order of AL-31FNs is needed before WS-10 can become ready for both J-10 and J-11.
And finally, we should also see more export deals with J-10 in the coming years. As we’ve seen in numerous reports, PAF will be the first export customer for J-10, although we don’t know the exact configuration yet. After Pakistan, J-10 will probably be offered to most countries around the world. It will actually be interesting to see how that will affect JF-17’s export prospects, since most potential export customers would only select one of the two fighters. China will also not be able to export to many countries until WS-10 becomes a viable engine option.
14 comments:
I think China really needs some kind of small but long lasting armed conflict, so it could test all its weapon to the fullest. All PLA personnels and weapon are untested， which make them extremely vulnerable during wartime.
China currently needs a conflict with a small but competitive enemy, such as Vietnam or Thailand, which can last a long time, but will not harm China's economic development. This way, China would not just train and test the military its equipment, but also create demand for better ones.
One question: How exactly are the J-10s "crushing" the Flankers in exercises? Which factors are enabling them to come up on top?
Just curious because it would be reasonable to assume that at least in the BVR sector, the two engines, overall better kinematic profile (thus parting greater energy to MR-AAMs) and more powerful radar of the Flnaker family would confer a significant advantage. Close-in I could imagine the smaller, nimbler J-10 having an edge.
Are there any mitigating factors (advanced internal EW suite?) which we are not aware of?
China's proposal for Burma's aircraft requirements sheds some light on JF-17&J-10 sales to 3rd parties. While Russia had it's MiG-29 on offer, China offered a combined package of J-10s and JF-17s.
For many countries, a Hi-Low combination where a comparatively smaller quantity of higher-performance J-10s, combined with larger numbers of the less-expensive but still modern and quiet capable JF-17s should be a potent combination.
These aircraft complement each other and together pack a pretty decent punch.
@349214794, to meet your requirements, the first choice of testbed would be India, and second choice would be Japan. China is not USA, so waging wars to test weapons is totally against China's national interest and its peaceful rise.
Actually, the best case scenario is if they never get into wars. You see PLAAF get all these new toys, but their training is frankly not all that great. They have a lot to learn before they can catch up to the Western training.
As for Burma, I'm pretty sure J-10 was never offered there. JF-17 was probably the only thing offered.
As for J-10 vs flankers, J-10 certainly has a huge advantage against flankers in dogfighting and such. I think the consistently lopsided results from these exercises show that edge is significant. As for BVR, the idea has always been that J-10 has been able to negate the larger radar by having more advanced electronics and weapons than all of the pre-J-11B flankers. So, there have been numerous articles stating that J-10 would track flankers and be able to target first. And the other factor is that J-10's better flight performance would allow it to out-turn and get behind flankers even if it got detected first. You are not going to fire off MR-AAMs until within 30 or 40 km of each other anyhow.
@ 349214794
Getting into a low-level conflict to just to test new weapons and personnel is not really a good idea. The U.S. already spent(wasted) $700 billion USD on Afghanistan and Iraq since 2001, and lost over 4,000 lives. There's nothing to learn from fighting insurgents armed with basic infantry weapons.
Here is a new image of Varyag, is it real? http://www.jeffhead.com/worldwideaircraftcarriers/ShiLang-01.jpg
A lot of people has forgotten that original Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) is based in Sichuan Province. Sichuan Province has a long history of engineering innovation for over 2,500 years ago. The Sichuan people are very innovative people and it is not surprise that J-10 and J-20 are design and build in Sichuan, much faster than people thought.
@valbonne, Zhang XinaZhong(張獻忠) nearly wiped out the whole population in Shichuan. Kangxi had to repopulate the place with forced migration from the surrounding provinces, so majority of people in Shichuan are not native Shichuan people. Your brag is similar to the racist attitude of those arrogant westerners that “only the West can invent and only the West can succeed.” Your racial undertone made no contribution to this blog and is very harmful to the China as a nation.
There will be a follow on variant called the J-10C, as reported by the Russian newspaper Izvestia and many Chinese articles.
The J-10C will be based on the J-10B, might be carrier-borne, and possibly twin-engined as well.
I was under the impression that the J-10 may have been offered due to these sources mentioning it:
- Russian Lenta.ru newspaper
"MiG's competition in the contest were the Chinese J-10 and FC-1"
http://lenta.ru/news/2009/12/23/birma/ (in Russian - can use online translation)
- Indian Brahmand aerospace
"The Russian bid to supply the MiG-29 Fulcrum-D carrier-based fighter aircraft beat China's offer to sell its latest J-10 and FC-1 fighters, a Myanmanrese news daily said."
http://www.brahmand.com/news/Russia-signs-deal-with-Myanmar-to-supply-20-MiG-29-fighters/2780/1/30.html
There still is a question of whether these sources are credible. Both the Russians as well as their Indian allies have many a bone to pick, with China. The Indian website refers to a Myanmarese news source, but does not cite which. It seems possible that the J-10 might have been offered, but it's hard to be certain and you may still be right on this.
there is no way J-10 was offered to Burma in that deal.
Considering that we owe billions to china and trillions in debt, there will have to be some exchange, coming from the west, no way. coming from the muslim world you bet,they made there bed let them lay in it, this american says.
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