Chinese naval helicopters

In the recent days, we have seen some new pictures of Z-8 with folding tail and rotor blades. You can see one of its pictures here.


The second one shows the size of Type 071 vs Z-8. Many people raised their view of the size of Type 071 after seeing this picture. Now, I'm not one of those people that actually tried to calculate Type 071's length based on Z-8's length from nose to folded area, but one of the guesses is 200 m and displacement to be 20,000 tonne. It certainly would be the largest LPD outside of San Antonio. Also, with the 2 helo hangar, I'm guessing it might be able to hold 3 on helipad + 2 in hangar = 5 altogether. This is definitely a step forward for the aviation capability of 071.

The first one shows the size of Z-8 vs people. To rehash one of my previous post on Z-8F improvements from Z-8A
Z-8F from Z-8A, uses a new engine that raises from 1190 kw to 1448 kw, go from titanium to composite rotor blades, service ceiling becomes 4700 m, in ground effect hover ceiling 2800 m
According to sinodefense, some of the specs of original Z-8
Empty weight: 7,095kg
Normal take-off weight: 9,000kg
Maximum take-off weight: 10,592kg (with standard fuel); 13,000kg (with two aux fuel tanks)
Passenger: 27 equipped commandos or 39 soldiers, or 15 stretchers
Maximum speed: 315km/h
Cruising speed: 266km/h
Economical speed: 255km/h
Service ceiling: 6,000m
Hover ceiling (out of ground effect): 4,400m
Hover ceiling (in ground effect): 5,500m
Range: Ferry range 830km; combat range 500km (with 3,000kg payload)
Flight endurance: 2 hours and 30 minutes (with maximum fuel and two working engines)
(kind of weird the specs listed below is more impressive than that of Z-8F, I think there probably is a mistake, but Z-8F is definitely an improved version from original Z-8A)
Z-8F was originally developed to be a transport I think, but it seems that a naval version has been developed as seen below with the SAR version.


Now that we are passed that, let's take a look at the naval helicopter in PLAN as a whole.
One of the more pressing needs for PLAN at the moment is naval helicopters. Currently, the PLAN helicopters consist of Z-8, Z-9C and Ka-28. Different sources would give different numbers of each helicopter in service with PLAN. For example, ka-28 number is listed as 10 on Janes fighter ship in 2004-5, as 10 on sinodefense and 24 on this
signal mag article. I personally think 24 is closer to truth because I saw the photos of several ka-28 that weren't listed in sinodefence's inventory list. The number of Z-9C is mentionned as 36 in that signal article, 25 on Janes and I think 30 on 2005-6 version. The number of naval Z-8 is listed as 20 on Janes and 10-12 on sinodefence. I personally like the Jane number, because 13 were acquired in the 70s and another 17 were produced by 1997 (yeah, they only produced 17 in over 10 years).

In their current roles, Z-9C seem to be equipping most of the frigates and older destroyers. Even on 054A, we have often seen models of Z-9C on the helipad. Z-9C is a light helicopter, and as such, cannot carry as much equipment and weapon needed for the ASW role. I'm not even sure at this point how many Z-9C actually carry a dipping sonar and/or sonobuoys. It can also only carry one light weight torpedo. Despite its limitations, it seems to be the most readily available and cheapest helicopter of the 3. Harbin Aviation was mentionned to have produced 7 Z-9s in 1 month a while back, so clearly production is not an issue. At this point, Z-9 is pretty much the most successful Chinese helicopter series. Even aside from its presence in PLAN, it is being equipped widely in army aviation and has achieved numerous export orders. During wartime, it will probably be the only one out of the 3 that PLAN would have no problem replacing.

Ka-28 is widely used with the modern destroyers and has also been seen with 054/A. It maybe the most capable of the 3 naval helicopters at the moment. In terms of its payload, range and endurance, they seem to all be impressive figures and it does not take as much space as a Z-8. It can land on both destroyers and frigates, and seems to be favoured on all of the recent PLAN ships. However, Ka-28 always has the problem of being an imported helicopter.
Finally, Z-8 seemed to have received a new lease in life in the Z-8F version. After Z-8F successfully flied in 2004, it achieved a level of production unseen previously. 9 were produced in 2005, 12 in 2006 and 15 are supposed to be produced this year. While some of the Z-8F are going to the army, there will definitely be a number going to the navy. With a maximum takeoff weight of 13 tonnes, it is definitely one that can carry the most load. However, it is very large, so it can only be operated on the ships with large helipad/hangar like 071, 072, replenshiment ships and such. It does serve a good role on amphibious ships, since it can be used to carry troops. With the improved production, it seems one of the past concerns with Z-8 has been removed.

In general, it seems that Z-9C are used for light frigates and older destroyers. Ka-28 are used for the more advanced destroyers/frigates. And finally, Z-8F are operating from amphibious ships and other large ships.

This will most likely be the case until Z-15, the new 10 tonne helo project and the rotorcraft project are completed.

Latest Developments

So, the nuclear submarine situation is getting more and more interesting. Now, we see new pictures of submarines that are claimed to be 093 SSN, but have diving planes on the sail (unlike the video from the museum). We have also seen pictures of the so called 091G coming out. I'm not sure what this says, other than that there might be more attack subs in service with PLAN than we realize. And also, it seems that we might have multiple variants of 093. The concept of successor variants of a project is certainly not new with PLAN. Some of the photos of the different submarines can be seen here.

Also, with the 80th anniversary, we have seen plenty of new pictures coming out. Here are the 4 052B/C ships taken at the recent time.





There are also some pictures of Yuan and 054A coming out. 529 has just returned from the sea trial

Revelations from 80th anniversary of PLA

Over the recent days, we have seen some new weapon systems getting unveiled and declassified by the Chinese government in the recent 80 years PLA anniversary celebration and other events. In the missiles side, we have seen pictures of DF-15 and the mysterious DF-25. There have been quite a lot of speculations on numerous Chinese bbs regarding to DF-25. The most outrageous of which is that DF-25 is the first medium ballistic missile with 3 MIRVs. I find this kind of troubling, since we do not yet know how many MIRVs DF-31/JL-2 can hold (if more than 1). Richard Fisher in his recent article mentioned that DF-21 was tested with multiple dummy heads a while back. I don't follow the 2nd Artillery enough to gain more insights, so I guess it's one of those things where you just have to wait for more pictures to come out.


With the new pictures of DF-15 coming out. There has been quite a lot of speculation that this is an ASBM version due to the small fins added to the missile. If we put aside ASBM argument for a while, one of the more interesting part in the recent years is the increased accuracy of Chinese ballistic missiles. This new variant of DF-15 is certainly more accurate than previous generations. I remember reading a newspaper article posted in June of 2002 on Chinese Youth Daily that the 80s test firing of DF-5 travelled 9000 km and still managed to achieve a CEP of 250 m. This figure is far smaller than the commonly accepted CEP of DF-5. I think this may apply to other Chinese ballistic missiles. Of the recent export missiles such as B-611 and P-12, the often given figure for CEP is 50 m and 30 m with GPS adjustment. Now, the domestic versions of these missiles can only be more accurate than these. For example, a domestic version of B-611 using Beidou guidance may achieve 25 m in CEP. This is still not exceedingly accurate, but approaches that of satellite guided bombs (original JDAM has CEP of 13 m with satellite guidance and 30 m without). Here is the even more interesting part. XAC is reportedly developing an upgraded version of JH-7 series that will be able to carry B-611. I'm assuming only 1, since B-611 weights more than 4 time of YJ-83K or any of the other usual attack weapons that JH-7A currently carries. And with the accuracy of something like KD-88 and YJ-91, it really doesn't make a lot of sense for JH-7A to carry 1 B-611when it could carry 4 KD-88 (which are far more accurate/cheaper) + more fuel. I don't think the destruction against an intended fixed target (unless a heavy bunker) will actually improve with B-611. So, this points to a possible anti-ship version of B-611. DF-15 and DF-21 have also been mentioned as possible ASBM by not only the ONI/JDW reports, but also by certain big shrimps on Chinese bbs (including ones that served for PLAN). However, I don't think these two have the same accuracy as a domestic version of B-611. Out of all the speculated ASBMs, the evidence for B-611 seem to be by far the most persuasive. Do I believe that China has ASBM? It's hard to say, because the obstacles against such weapons are great, but so are the voices from the people that believe in their existence. If I do see an air launched version of B-611 serving in PLANAF with JH-7A, I think I will believe it.


Speaking of Beidou, the recent PLA celebration displayed different types of Beidou equipments. Another interesting development is seeing TV programs showing command centers using software programs that are using Beidou coordinates. Clearly, Beidou is already a large part of PLA despite only having 3 satellites until this year. An even more interesting development on Beidou is a recent article on its development which claimed that it will have a 0.5 m accuracy. This is quite an improvement from 20 m for Beidou 1 and 10 m for non-authorized user for Beidou 2. It was never revealed what the accuracy for the paid users or the military users are, but going from 10 m to 0.5 m seems to be an awfully large jump. I'm a little speculative of the source (posted in a local newspaper), but like all things related to PLA, one must be patient for more sources.


Probably the biggest surprise from the recent military display is the unveiling of 093 class. The photo I think surprised a lot of people, because it does seem to be different from the previous speculated 093 photos (one of which had horizontal planes). There was also the mention of the so called 091G class. It's a little unclear right now to me whether they actually built new SSNs to that standard or they are just upgraded from the original 5 Hans. I would lean to the latter, since it is hard to think that ONI would miss something like launching of a new Han class sub. One of the more discussed topics is the kind of propeller used by 093. It is not a surprise that none of the photos showed the propeller, but you can see from the photos that there seems to be no wave caused by the propeller. The splashes around the sub itself seemed to be all caused by other parts of the hull. Whether or not this indicates 093 is using pump jet propeller is debatable, but it does seem like the propeller is far more advanced than that of any other PLAN subs. The other debates around 093 is around its reactor -> whether or not it is using pebble bed reactor. There has not been any indications either way on that. And finally, what weapons does 093 use? The main torpedo of choice for modern PLAN subs is Yu-6. I believe Yu-6 was developed to match or exceed the performance of MK-48 mod 5. One of the specs I read was 50 knots for 27 nm. I guess this figure may shock many people, because PLAN has never had any kind of torpedo at this level. But as we saw with PL-12, China is capable of developing very advanced missiles/torpedoes from much lower base. Just as PL-12 was developed to be able to engage 4th and 5th generation fighters in BVR situations, Yu-6 was developed to chase down Nimitz carriers and Seawolf SSN. As we've seen more pictures recently with PL-12 equipping all the latest fighters and Yu-6 equipping the Song class, it's quite clear that they are fully developed and PLA are happy with their performance. As for anti-ship missile and LACMs, it's not too clear at the moment what 093 will use. We know that YJ-82 is widely deployed on Chinese subs, but a submarine version of YJ-83 should also be under development if not already deployed. And finally, we recently saw on a CCTV report that the latest indigenous submarines are equipped with air defense missiles (the missiles look to be from QW series). The explanation for this is that Chinese submarines can't count on being protected by aerial assets against aerial ASW assets.


Finally, 094 was mentionned as one of the 3 major military projects in a government page along with KJ-2000 and J-10. Interestingly enough, this page was taken down soon afterward by the host (which is one of the government agencies). It seems like 093 and 094 have both achieved a level of operating capability for China to unveil them to the public. They may be one of two generations behind the latest Western nuclear subs, but will be significant upgrade over existing platforms before the more capable 095/096 come along (probably somewhere in the middle of the next decade).

Aircraft Carrier and SSBN

There has also been some news going out on aircraft carrier and SSBN. First, let's look at aircraft carriers, here is a photo of Varyag from recent times.


Now, we have seen numerous articles talking about China getting ready to build aircraft carrier. I have this article from kanwa's recent article.


This is not saying much, except that switchboard being ordered for aircraft carrier. Afterward, it commented on the possible shipyards for building the carrier. And it also talks about the welding equipment (I think) used for Chinese military ships.

From what I can gather on some of the more reliable sources on Chinese military webs, the indigenous aircraft project is known as the Project 048.

In terms of the supplier, I found a possible list a while back, don't know how accurate it is:
弹射器、拦阻索、特种甲板钢------德阳二重集团（已交付或部分交付）
catapult, arresting gear, special steel deck - Deyang 2nd heavy limited - I think this is the website for one of the subsidiary of this company?
http://www.ldjcj.cn/newEbiz1/EbizPortalFG/portal/html/index.html
This place is somewhere in Szechuan
fully delivered or party delivered already
舰体------------沪东中华集团 长兴岛（未知）
ship hull - Hudong Zhonghua in Changxin (no confirmation)

舰用轴承--------哈尔滨轴承集团 （已交付）
Ship bearing - Harbin Bearing Limited (already delivered)
This is their website http://www.bearinghrb.com/

锅炉配件--------哈尔滨锅炉厂 （已交付)
Boiler accessories - Harbin Boiler factory (already delivered)
website http://www.hbc.com.cn/

特种舰艇板材----鞍山钢铁、宝山钢铁 （已交付）
special ship plate - Anshan steel http://www.ceie.com.cn/ (delivered)
Baoshan steel - http://www.baosteel.com

舰载机----------601所 （在研）
naval fighter - SAC (in development)

舰艇设计--------中船重工701所 （技术冻结或已定型）
Ship design - CSIC 701 institute (finalized design)

配套舰船--------江南重工、沪东中华 长兴岛 、大连重工、黄埔造船（已开工）
escorts .... you guys know

配套核潜艇------葫芦岛厂、江南重工 长兴岛 （已开工或准备开工）
submarines - you guys also know

辅助舰----------沪东中华 长兴岛 、黄埔造船、广船（已开工）
replenishment ship - 886/887

训练舰----------大连重工 （已开工）
training ship - Dalian - Varyag

For the steel making part, there are basically 2 steel makers that have already delivered steel for the carrier and a third one that has yet to finish. Once everything is done, they will assess which one meets the requirements.

As for nuclear submarine, we've heard about the 094 being found on satellite imaging by FAS recently. Now, I don't have access to the satellite imaging, but I'm still unconvinced on this. There has been much speculation that the newly discovered ballistic submarine is 092 mod rather than 094. I think the only fair thing to say at this point is to not jump the gun either way. Kanwa mentioned something about 096 design being almost finished in the current edition of Kanwa. There has been one supplier that accidentally revealed it's part of the 095 SSN project a while back, but we have not found anything similar for 096.

Thoughts on recent pla development.

For the past month, we haven't had any new worthy photos coming out, but there are some new designs being talked about. In particular, Richard Fisher's recent article listed several possible new programs. http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.163/pub_detail.asp

First, the mysterious 081 (don't want to get in a debate on whether this is a LHD or LPH)
Now, some form of helo carrier have been discussed on Chinese military bbs for a while. And for sure, there is a need for something like this in PLAN, but there are some major fundamental problems too. The problem is the lack of aerial assets that can go on such a ship. Currently, the domestic options are Z-9C and the naval variant of Z-8F (which just go recently unveiled) and the import options are Ka28/31. Back in 2006, there was a major deal between China/Russia widely discussed for 20 Ka-31 and 40 ka-29. Since then, we haven't heard much about it, since the military cooperation between the two countries seemed to have stalled this year. So, we are down to a helicopter that's too small, a helicopter that is too old and a helicopter that is slight old and a little inaccessible. In the near future, Z-15 and the 10 tonne helicopter under development are possible options in the future. Either way, having a capable naval helicopter has always been an issue for PLAN.

Next, the so called new frigate that China will be building. Richard Fisher stated in his article
"According the French and German sources interviewed at IMDEX, the PLAN is developing a new class of frigate to accompany the Type 054A air defense frigate now in series production. There was apparently a competition between the engines of the French firm SEMT Pielstick and Germany’s MTU, to provide the new diesel engine which will be paired with a gas turbine. MTU won. The new frigate will use two diesels and two turbines, a conventional configuration that could support a range of mission requirements. But the sources interviewed had no insights regarding the size, mission and configuration for this new ship."
In my opinion, this is not a new class per se, but rather a follow up variant (054B). So I think using CODOG arrangement means the following:

• Larger displacement -> more space for weaponary
  
• Quieter propulsion -> better for ASW purposes
• Improved sensors -> As we saw on 891, an entire new set of sensors are being tested. Maybe it's going on to the remaining 054A or maybe they are for 054B

Finally, there has been some news from the aircraft engine side. It has been brought up recently that Shenyang Liming and Salyut are improving their cooperation in the area of aerospace engine. It was mentionned that the variant 99M is possibly presented for J-10. According to certain sources, Salyut mentioned that China funded part of its development. There are certain requirements for 99M that seemed to be more important for PLAAF than RuAF. Currently, there are speculations on whether or not this cooperation means just sales or licensed production and ToT. We will have to wait and see how this turns out.

Latest updates

First, on the planes front, there are a couple of developments to watch out for:

• We can start out with some new project at SAC posted on the official AVIC website http://www.avic1.com.cn/chinese/xwzx/detail/20070529_9.htm
• It basically talks about a new airframe being delivered for static testing. Now, normally static testing in PLAAF is the second prototype. So that probably means this class so far has the first prototype + this 02 prototype. It doesn't seem to be J-11B, since that should be going into service this year. So, it would have to either be SAC's J-11BS project (I guess Chinese attempt to get something in the class of su-34/F-15E) or their naval fighter project. I personally didn't expect it to proceed this quickly, but who knows.
• The second part is news from CAC side, there was a while back that xinhua mentioned a major project at CAC http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2007-04/30/content_6046552.htm
• Now, it seems like this is the major change on J-10. I guess the second variant after the original J-10 variant, not the much talked about twin engined J-10 project
• A couple of things, according to a "big shrimp" on Chinese BBS, this project will be much better than the original J-10, using WS-10 series + TVC nozzle, improved aerodynamics, more usage of composites, generally a more stealthy design (not sure whether internal carriage will be done), more network centric/better situation awareness, possibly built in IRST, improved radar (maybe too early for AESA, not sure). But the gist is that the design was finalized in April according to the article, and it normally takes 6 month to produce a prototype, so the first prototype might have a change of flying at the end of the year.

Now, on the naval side, there hasn't been a lot of movement since we last spoke. We have some new pictures of 054A, 071 and some new 022s launching, but only this picture is kind of interesting

This is pretty much the first clear over the head shot of 054A's VLS. Doesn't seem to be cold launched, since the cells are flat vs water level. Still trying to determine where the exhaust vent is. Some people are saying it's the part between two adjacent lids. We will see.

Recent News

First, new Varyag photos


Second, new pictures of 171 returning to Shanghai for maintenance


Third, a picture of the VLS of 051C

Fourth, a picture of the second 054A in HD finally being launched, interestingly enough, no sea eagle yet

Fifth, a picture of the first 054A in HP returning from sea test


Now, in the land of the aerial assets. Recently, we have seen evidences from photo leaks, military newspaper article and magazines of the following:

• J-10 is being equipped (probably fully converted) in the 5th regiment in 2nd division
• JH-7A has been spotted in a new PLAAF regiment in possibly 5th division (13-15th regiment) located in the Shandong area.
  
• JH-7A also has been spotted in a PLANAF 14th regiment of 5th division in Jiaozhou in NSF
  
• Z-10's first production batch is getting delivered this year
• Z-8F has finally reached production level (according to this link http://www.jxgfgb.gov.cn/news/news_detail.asp?id=2423, China produced 9 Z-8 in 2005, 12 in 2006 and at least 15 in 2007)