Monday, September 7, 2009

Pictures on the Eve of the 60th Anniversary parade for PLA

The 60th anniversary is going to be held on October 1st of this year. Thankfully, they actually unveil a lot of new stuff at this event that happens every 10 years. The systems they are showing in the parade are already in Beijing. As mentioned in a recent article, China is unveiling 5 new missiles at the National Day Parade. I got a list of the missiles that will be on display and here they are.

The ones below are YJ-62 and YJ-83. These are just the anti-ship missiles in service with PLAN. For YJ-62, I think there are LACM and AShM versions of this missile.

The pictures below are showing CJ-10, CJ-10, DF-21C, DF-31A, DF-11A, DF-15B. These are probably the 5 missiles they mentioned in that article. CJ-10 is China's latest long range LACM. It had been described as DH-10 in the past, but the current parade calls it CJ-10 (long sword 10). DF-21C is the newest variant of China's DF-21 series (there was a lot of noise about it a while back as possibly the first MIRV MRBM). DF-31A is the newest variant of China's DF-31 ICBM. I'm not sure if this indicates that DF-31A is in service or not (I think it does). The final two missiles are the latest variant of the SRBMs in service with the 2nd Artillery. They are also probably the ones that China is fielding against Taiwan.

The pictures below are HH-9, HH-16, HQ-7, HQ-9 and HQ-12. HH-9 is the long range SAM on 052C. HH-16 is the medium range SAM on 054A. It looks very much like shtil series that it was rumoured to have been based upon. One has to remember that shtil series include 9M38, 9M38M1, 9M38M2, 9M317, 9M317M1, 9M317M2/3. HH-16's external appearance is definitely not the closest to 9M317M2/3, which is like the VLS variant of shtil. However, it does resemble more closely to some of the other variants. I don't have enough information to speculate how its performance are. HQ-7 is PLA's short range SAM. Strangely enough, it's really not in service in too many battalions if you check SOC's website. HQ-9 is China's new long range SAM. Its export version was pitted in the Turkey long range SAM competition. HQ-12 is China's high altitude medium range SAM. It has much inferior specs when compared to HQ-9, but actually joined service at about the same time (compared to HQ-9, it's more of a low cost replacement for HQ-2).


Ying said...

80% of that crap is made with help of russians, who would only give china some 20 years old technology and 20% of that was just copy of the western technology. this leaves china with its own technology of 0%.
in real was scenario, these machines will prove nothing but "SUDS and DUDS".
nothing is impressive as china lacks the "innovative brains"

Feng said...

I have no clue what you are talking about, since all of these guys are domestic designs.

Taiwan Matters to America said...

Affirmative on the Chinese designs. The DF-21C is a CASIC Fourth Design Department product, DH-10 (or CJ-10) is a CASIC Third Design Department product, and SAMs are probably CASIC Second Design Department products.

Some materials, components, or technical assistance could have been sourced from Russian or Ukrainian suppliers. But some could just as well come from the U.S., EU, Japan, or elsewhere.

But bottom line is that these designs are indeed domestic.

Ying said...

I don't know what you are tryin' to prove Feng. your J17 has SU27 engine and F16 aerodynamix if you reverse engineer that you can only make the "replica" the fine tuning secrets are still beyond your reach.

Few years ago, the news from china was that it was going to develop the fastest CPU in the world and guess what, after the testing of that so called "fastest CPU" the news just died with your CPU.

Chang'e 1 moon craft is another concoction. while all other countries posted tonnes of pictures and moon videos, china failed to do that except just one photoshopped picture of apollo mission in "its two years life span"

same goes with your export quality satellites, half of them are dead already and have become space junk. I am afraid that they do not land on my roof.

The epitome is that technologically china is still behind USA by some 30 to 40 years and will never catch up with #1 USA

Feng said...

Ying, you got problems and need to address them with a psychologist, I can't help you, I'm sorry.

Jiang said...

Ying is a Tiawanese crap. It is so obvious. What weapon can Taiwan make?? Their IDF is crapy and F-16 is some old crap bought from USA. Our Chinese J-10A/B can easily destory their Mirage-2000, F-16A/B and single handed their IDF.

Worst of all. Taiwan begs USA to sell F-16C/D and USA refuse cause, so all Taiwan got left is more junk that will eventually be used as JUNK metal.

Jiang said...

To make matters even worst. Taiwan's little mere president Ma Ying Jiou is now BEGGING peace with China. Cause Taiwan's Ecomony is DYING!!!!!!

yeh said...

You need to see a mental doctor, just in case U dont want to understand Mr. FENG said..... I feel sorry for you. Are you sorry? I think so.

Ying said...

to Feng and Jiang:

I don't need to see no psychiatrist dudes!

Just answer my question, why china is not revealing its find from the moon mission Chang'e 1"?

I don't see no military reason to hide this info.

Rick Joe said...

Uhh Ying, for the whole Chang'e 1 thing... We all know how secretive the PRC can be. It's hardly a surprise that they're secretive about this as well.

And if I don't think even Feng can give you an answer to why China doesn't release it's info and pics taken of the moon.
But my suggestion is maybe they don't need to or want to? What purpose would posting them for everyone to see provide?

Take a chill pill too man, and let's see in a few decades what shape China and America are in to say whether China will overtake no.1 US or not. For now, anything can happen. =)

Ying said...

" Eric Z said... "

I admire your style :-)

It appears that you have not read my 1st post which you should!

Jiang said...

lol. Ying u piece of Sh!t. You think little mere Taiwan can compare to US???

My China is much bigger and have the faster growing encomny whats your Taiwan's growth rate????

I know, its -3%. lol

Ying said...

"Ying u piece of Sh!t"

hey Jian sh!t! you are just a mainland garbage hated by the world you ugly fu@#ing crap. communism will die. Democracy will win.

yeh said...

pls. don't fight. This is exactly what the isolationist like to see. We are one, no matter which kind of political systems we prefer, we are nothing but sh!t to these isolationists, western doctrine believer, and separatists. Pls. understand our history, my grandfather and my dad were slaves to foreign powers. Why? because our elderly would tell us that we were not ONE!!!!!!

Unknown said...

Feng and Jiang you are both wrong to classify Ying as a mental case desperately in need of medical help. Ying has a special peculiar kind of personality which no one, no matter how eloquent, persuasive or logical that person might be, can have a meaningful debate or discussion with. His mentality make up is like a mixture of sand, granite stone and cement. Once thoroughly mixed and left to set will become concrete. Since his mind is like concrete you can never change his mind no matter how you try. Tell me how to when to him white is black and black is white. So don't waste time on him. His type, in our region, is known as what we called a BLOCK HEAD.

Unknown said...

Ying If what you wrote is true, which is not, then China military capabilities can be written off.
If that is the case then why are the American so concerned (very very concerned) about China military developments (third rate according to you) especially in the development of weapons to deny/curtail their carriers ability to operate with impunity as what they are now doing threatening and bullying other countries. China is not stupid like Taiwan. China observed and studied the actions and results of the American and NATO war in Kosovo and elsewhere. The American are concerned that China is building up
the ability to do a Kosovo on Taiwan. With the carriers kept out of range and the nearby bases at risk from China can Taiwan survive? Ying do you think the American are willing to sacrifice their most expensive assets to defend Taiwan. If you think so then you can dream on. It is your right to waste time dreaming but I would not bank on that. American are fair weather friend and had been known to back stab their friends/allies when it is to their interest. As a matter of fact it is safer to have them as your enemy rather than friends. No doubt you like all American lap dogs and pussy cats will migrate to America should such eventuality happen (Hopefully not). In that case China, no doubt, will bade you farewell and good riddance. Yes China copied but then which countries does not. Name me one.

Jiang said...

Koh I think u hit Ying's nerve. lol

Nice said.

Ying said...

no body has hit ma weak nerve yet. china's might..... a huge inventory of "untested" shiny kit and the dum asses of PLA.
you can count on it just like chang'e 1 and dozens of falied satellites as space junk.
china can only produce $ store crap with garbage quality.

Ying said...

you brilliant commies, check out this gulf news

Ying said...

no body has hit ma weak nerve yet. china's might..... a huge inventory of "untested" shiny kit and the dum asses of PLA.
you can count on it just like chang'e 1 and dozens of falied satellites as space junk.
china can only produce $ store crap with garbage quality.

Unknown said...

Ying You got it right and I won't dispute that with you. Do you know why? Let me enlighten you. (Not that you can really comprehend) No one can hit your weak nerve because you haven't got one. Remember you are a Block Head and Block Head has thick skin and therefore insensitive/immune to logical arguments. The Indonesian has an equivalent description for the like of you. It is called Gor Block. Meaning a dumb individual devoid of the ability to think logically but with a propensity for spurting nonsense.
You can say what you like because you are an insignificant idiot. If those guys in the American Military establishments are very very concerned about China growing military (that is garbage to you) ability that for me say a lot. Of course it is your privilege to say you are smarter than those guys. It is alright because you are a Gor Block and an insignificant one too. But the choice of who to believe in by a sane and intelligent person is obvious for all to see except a Gor Block like you. Garbage that can pose serious concern to a mighty military is laughable.
It is only natural to have failures for it is from there you learned the mistakes and make improvements until you finally succeed. You talked as though the Western countries are perfect and never make mistakes and are always successful in whatever they do in their first attempts. You really lick their boots well.
You still have not answer my question by naming a country that does not steal or copy from another country. Guess you can't. In that case you should not be making wild statements like that which served only to expose your ignorant. But then what do a Gor Block like you care. No you don't because a Gor Block is also thick skin.
BTW what are you? You have a Chinese name but you are anti Chinese. Don't tell me you are in the same category as Chen Sui Bian who said, despite his Chinese name, he is not Chinese. Is your root from the Baboon Lineage or perhaps Orang Utan?
For your information I am no Commie. I am not even a native of China. But my root is Chinese and I am proud of it. I am Chinese no matter where I am whether it is on land, on sea or in the air.

Ying said...

hey ya slope head Koh:

Americans used the same bait for iraq calling saddam hossein the mightiest, so that he would attack first. an excuse for the americans to hit back like tons of brix.

remember china sat like a dum ass when its embassy was hit by cruise missile in kosovo conflict. at least that was one smart move by PLA by not retaliating or you would all be sitting in ashes of your own.

USA/EU is not worried at all about this dollar store super power as PLA calls itself

Unknown said...

Ying You can't answer those simple questions I posed to you and yet you want to show you are a smart ass which a Gor Block can never be.
Yes Saddam is stupid but not China. China is too smart for that and not taking the bait. You talked about things that happened a couple of years back. China today is a different China. Time does not stand still. I hope a Gor Block like you can understand that. China's policy is talk softly but carry a big stick. You only know how to lick the American's boots but refused to acknowledge your heritage. That speak a lot for a renegade like you. In case you are still in a fantasy world of your own making American are now looking up, begging, and pleading China for help in many areas like currency support, (Your master is in deep financial trouble) support in dealing with Iran and Korea and so on. Everyone know, except you, that American is on the downward slide. Care to explain why the garbage (that is what you said) is causing the American top brass so much concern. You can't and that prove my point that you are a Block Head incapable of logical thinking and can only talk nonsense. Therefore it is pointless to proceed with this subject with a moron like you.
BTW calling me name for no rhyme nor reason served no useful purpose except to deepen my disgust in you.
Unless and until you can answer all those questions I posed to you
it will be a waste of time to carry on. In the meantime go and lick your master boots further which you are so good at.

Unknown said...

Feng I had stopped writing for near to 3 decades and I must thank you for the use of your sites to start again. It is inevitable my writeup will contain several typographical, grammatical and spelling errors. I hope all of you who read my writeup will understand and forgive my shortcomings and for daring to voice my two cents of opinions.
Finally I observed that I mostly ended the discussions in your sites whenever I participated in it. I hope so in this particular discussion and that this will be the final writeup. I have my doubts Ying can answer all my questions. All he is capable of doing is harping on old and irrelevant issues which is of no relevancy to today world. Like I said it is pointless to talk to one who persist that black is white and white is black.
In the meantime Feng, Jiang and company do take care and keep well.

Ying said...

Koh, the wise old man :-) I know you will never give up the arguement on china's fake glory. read below

Abuja — Africa's first communications satellite has suffered an energy failure just 18 months after its launch.

The solar panels have malfunctioned on the Chinese-manufactured satellite according to Alhassan Zaku, Nigeria's minister of state for science and technology.

The NIGCOMSAT-1 satellite was launched from China in 2007 (see Satellite launches boost African communications) amidst optimism that it would aid development by linking up rural communities and progressing telemedicine and long-distance learning. There were also ambitious commercial goals. But these are now dashed, say commentators.

Ahmed Rufai, managing director of Nigeria Communication, which runs the satellite management company, said the satellite was powered down on Sunday night (9 November) after it was discovered that the batteries were failing faster than expected.

But Nigeria's ThisDay newspaper (12 November) claims that the satellite has already fallen out of its orbit and been destroyed in order to prevent it from harming others. The paper quotes unnamed sources who allege that the Chinese manufacturers of the satellite used poor-quality materials.

Akin Soyinka, chair of non-governmental organisation Nigeria Internet Watch, told SciDev.Net that the loss of the satellite would damage the country's efforts to bridge the digital divide -- see African action plan pushes satellites for development).

Ying said...

Pakistan's Badr-A. China launched Pakistan's first satellite to a 375-mi.-high circular orbit on July 16, 1990. The satellite, Badr-A, was launched aboard the maiden flight of the Long March 2E rocket from Xichang Launch Center in China. After 146 days in space, Badr-A fell into the atmosphere and burned.
now read this
Satellite fails to find orbit

Albert said...

Ying, What does it prove, selectively showing China's failures? Does not other countries have their failures? You are just childish.

Rick Joe said...

Ying I did read your first post, but what has that got to do with anything?
You basically just degrade and insult China's military capability and industry out of spite and contempt (from your tone).
What has that got to do with satellites....?

What ethnicity are you, out of interest?

Ying said...

"Albert & Eric said..."

you have a point. china is flaunting it's 'untested might'. the main concern is it's human rights violation, illegal occupation of Tibet, Xinjian and part of Russia, Phillipines, Vietnam, India & Mongolia.
My post is to discourage those jerks who are bragging to 'teach USA a lesson'. USA is the only country in the world, which is the beacon of hope and freedom and opposite of red china's ambitions.
thats my f***ing point.

Ying said...

One more thing, china is the mother of all terrorisms. your country gave the pakistan, a terrorist country, the "islamic bomb". which, pakistan further spread to north korea, iran, saudi arabia and libya. (libya dropped out later). it was china, who gave the starving north koreans missile technology who exchanged with pakistan for nuke tech. in near future, it will be china's nuke, made in pakistan, detonated in several chinese cities by the moslems of xinjiang. thats what china deserves

Ying said...


China to order 100 more Russian-made RD93 engine for JF-17

Albert said...

Keep up your whining..., Ying. ;-)

Unknown said...

unfotunately YING ,u really need a serious medical help...u trying to tell us truth? how can u dare 2 do that?
dont u know that we belong to a country where we see through the googles,given to us,using of which is d great commun*$t govt. of china..rather "peoples republic of china".
how can u b so rude expecting "innovative brains" from us,where innovative thoughts & independent moves are f***ed if they go against our "national interests" set by f***ing intensions of our great leaders,2 keep us seeing, what they really want.
secondly, let me tell u that there
is no other country which is sovrign
and independent enough to be compared with us (NON COMMUNIST).
lastly how did u c0me 2 know dat we
started this copyin business from
mIg-21 ,dont u really afraid of our dearing "indegenious" fighters and
most updated t52 tanks ?? and what about our largest army...employment
agency made 2 employ the illiterate
hooligans 2 execute THE TIEN AN M*NS.....if u ever dare to know about that incident(bt don't)...u will get 2 know HOW MUCH OUR GOVT. think of us.

Unknown said...

I had remain silent for quite a while. As a fact of matter I have no intention of writing on this matter anymore. However, the nonsense regurgitated from this block head is getting to be too ridiculous to be tolerated or ignored. First he said that China occupied part of Russia which any idiot can tell you it is impossible. Which country can occupy any Russian land without risking paying a heavy price. It is the way around and Russia still occupy large chunk of China's territory. Obviously he was not aware that half of Manchuria is occupied by Russia. Now we come to the Philippines. They were attacked and occupied by the USA in 1890 until a few years back they were told to leave and when they left they left a lot of toxic waste which they refused to clean up to show their displeasure. In 1960 they invaded Vietnam and caused untold miseries, death of innocent citizens in their hundreds of thousands until the Vietcong eventually defeated and kicked them out unceremoniusly. (That is your mighty USA) In between they also invaded various countries and where ever they go they caused untold miseries and death. To cut a long story short in 2001 and 2003 they invaded and occupied Afghanistan and Iraq. At they same time they are also bombing Pakistan, their ally, and killing innocent civilians in their thousands. This is your so called Beacon of Hope and Freedom. Even the decent Americans call this madness, mass murders of millions, bullying and illegal invasions. However, this guys who refused to answer all my questions and shamelessly have a Chinese name glorify the mass murderers of millions as Beacon of Hope and Freedom. One have to be mentally warped to accept this.
For your information the Americans actually originally had no land or country. They came to America and slaughter the Real American Natives for their land. They tried to exterminate them but failed. They only managed to steal their land and decimated their numbers. They were not satisfied even with that. They started a war with Mexico and annexed large Chunk of Mexican territories. In case you are not aware New Mexico, Texas California are some of the land taken by force from Mexico. There are many more territories annexed by them by force but we stop here so as not to expose too much of your ignorance for all to see. So much for your democracy, freedom and human rights. America has the bloodies hands with million of murdered innocent civilians in the whole world. They have no moral authority all to talk of human rights, freedom and democracy.
Eric asked what ethnicity are you.
I asked that of you first and suggested some possibilities. You had kept quiet on that. So it is safe to conclude that you share your lineage with the baboon. In that case I offer you my apology for calling you a renegade.
In conclusion I would add that this will definitely be my last writeup on this subject as you had not only proved to be a block head but also a rambling lunatic.
Keep on licking your master's boots and make sure they are clean for they will be the very boots they will use to kick you in time to come.

ProTon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ProTon said...

Because of differences with the west....Russians transferred most sensitive and sophisticated technologies to china and they are continuing to do so!...The world should recognize that confrontation with Russians would strengthen the evil chinese regime...We should have friendly relations with russia to counter china's evil designs.
Long Live PEACE !!

ProTon said...

In this 21st century we are going to see more aggressive communist china.All other countries struggling to check nuclear proliferation and missile technology failed to find out the real culprit,architect of world's nuclear proliferation....The China.Now it is very clear that china is going to be a great threat to the peace and stability of entire world.China's defense modernization and capabilities are aimed at territorial expansion and exercising political hegemony,it is not for defensive but for offensive purposes....In the next decade china is going to target Taiwan ,India then Japan...the peaceful democracies and also vietnam..later it is going to begin a new cold war era by confronting with USA and Europe.
With its military might it is indulging in human rights violations in Tibet and is trying to occupy the territories of its neighbours...with its economic and political clout it is supporting genocides in countries like sudan,HR violations in is dumping cheap junk into other countries destroying their economies.
Everyone knows how pakistan , north korea acquired nukes and ballistic missiles.World's democratic community should unite and fight with china for making this world a peaceful place to live !

Jiang said...

Everyone leave Ying along. He has a girl's name and he is having his PERIOD right now. lol. The only little boy I know who have period!

As for Pro Ton, you are right, since everyone in the Western country thinks we Chinese as a threat, IT IS A GREAT Reason for my country China to Vastly increase the millitary budget, I would love to see China triple its defence budget at 190 billion dollars then we Chinese will build at least 8 nuclear Aircraft carriers and at least 3000 thermal Nuck bomb and many many nuke subs. This way we can play your cold war games, but only this time you will LOSE, because your Economy is DYING!!!

Jiang said...

And to make matter WORST for you Pro Ton. China now no longer need Russia for tech, because we Chinese have the second largest encomy and fastest growing one. We also have many talented people so we can develop any thing in the future on our own.

Ying said...

Jiang said...

I think in your view the mighty free world is going to sit quietly and china will be no. 1 by next decade. wishful thinking my friend.

look around and see the BRI (Brazil, Russia and India) counties coming out very fast. Democratic Russia has finally begin to align with USA (The uncontested leader of democracy) and the sole super power. USA/EU can screw china in a flash by refusing to buy china's goods. your economy is export driven, not the consumer driven.

your technology, well I have earlier stated many times that it is too primitive and can be compared with countries like libya, irak and north korea. so trully, your 60th aniversary was nothing more than lot of fireworks display (same as your home made weaponary)
good luck!
long love free world and long live free tibet, xinjiang and Taiwan.

ProTon said...

Jian g
We perceive chinese military expansion and modernization as threat.It is not that chinese are building capabilities because we are looking them with suspicion....The fact is that we are looking chinese with suspicion because they are enhancing their military capabilities .China is doing so to to create problems and unrest in the world.They want to dominate the world politically and chinese hegemony is absolutely unacceptable for us.
Chinese begged missiles,other technologies from russia...even now china is dependent on the most they made some minor modifications to the russian is an open secret!
Why are you people dumping cheap junk into other markets,can't you make quality products...Our junk yards are full of chinese use and throw are misusing free market system.There should be market restrictions based on quality...oh then where will the chinese products go!?
Why are you killing Uighurs and tibetans??
Why are you proliferating nuclear and missile technologies to the dirty states like pakistan and n korea? it because they are your partners in the grand filthy circle?
Why is china supporting the sudan govt. in various international conventions?
Why china wants to occupy the taiwan and other territoies of its neighbours when they are peacefully growing on their own??

ProTon said...

No matter how many nuclear subs,missiles and other junk you have...US has the power to crush you to hell....and US will protect the innocent peace loving people!

Ying said...


here is the news for your evil country. USA is leading the group of freedom loving countries, Japan, Australia, EU, India and Russia to contain your rotten act of nuclear and missile proliferation to terrorist countries.

Its not coming of the slate that easy, ya sloped brains. a disintegration of evil china is a "must".

Read what Nostradamus predicted few "centuries" ago.

We, the free world are not against common chinese but commie ba$tards.

Jiang said...

Yeah right. The USA is getting its ass kick right now by Iraqis and Tabalian who dont even have tanks and planes, and 1950's got their ass WHOPPED by PLA.

Now you are saying that they will crush us. lol LMFAO!!!! And you stupid sh!t, Russia is on China's side and Japan is busy lobbying China to form an East Asian union like the EU, just look at the new Japanese Prime Minster. He has already promise to Fix the Japanese History book, and improve the relation!

Also the little mere Taiwan is licking China's a$$ right now for more trade.

SO HOW ON EARTH Can your America contain us???

Oh, BTW. We got North Korea on our side as well and that will easyily take care of South Korea and Pakistan on our west side to take care of Bhindia.

SO dream on.

Unknown said...

China is a pure evil and the brain washed, aggressive, over crowded Cockroaches who call themselves Chinese.

China has invaded or fought wars, in the last 50 years, with all its neighbours.

1. Tibet Invasion
2. Attempted Taiwan assault
3. Invaded Vietnam
4. Attacked India
5. Seized Russia's Adamsky Islands by force
6. Invaded South Korea

No one is their right minds, while shifting polluting and low wage industries to that moral-less country, trusts it. Everyone is arming like crazy. Russia has 75% of its military strength on the border with China.

Everyone is just waiting for something to kick off so they can skin the dragon and humble it.

Ying said...

dakudav said...

you are correct dakudav, communist china is heading for its own destruction. china can never become the sole super power just the way iran can never have the nukes with the help of these paki poodles.

free world is running out of patience. we see it in terms of slapping levy on chinese exports to eliminate their dollar store crap

ProTon said...

Shameless you rotten chinese rats..
you have no answers for the q's posted above...
chinese don't know how to innovate they just know how to copy....and they brag!
just see these russian and other sites....

ProTon said...

Russia and the United States are debating how to deal with the growing Chinese use of stolen technology, especially for weapons systems that are exported and compete against the systems they are copied from!

Ying said...

my experience with slope brains product (crappy sh!t from walmart)
VCR (made in china) $100.00 changed 3 times in one year while under warranty and the 4th garbage died in 2 months, few days after warranty expired.
TV (made in china) $250. same shit. every two months it needed repairs. do I need explain more about the quality of china's untested shiny weapons?
those made in russia, in chinese inventory will by no means out perform the china made shit. sell them to the taliban pakistanis and commie north koreans

Ksuysha said...

Urgh. Why does every post i read regarding china's 60th anniversary turn out to be a war????

some people here are just way too ignorant to have a proper, sophisticated, rational, discussion of current world issues. And what is with all the hostility toward each other? Globalization is approaching fast, and all need to work together in order to ensure peace. Arguing heedlessly and insulting each other won't help.

All countries have skeletons hiding in their countries.

All countries will not care to use propaganda to expose their people to only one point of view.

no matter what you see or hear, you need to objectively examine the source of the information and think about why it is presented that way. Only then can you truly say you are not being brainwashed.

i admire the chinese people. No matter through what method, for them to advance both techonologically and economically so quickly is admirable, and should be a role model to the western society, not as a threat. Denying her process will be the same as blinding ourselves to the recession of our own countires (in my case, Russia). Just like Japan who became a rising power by studying the western teachings, there are only benefits to be found by learning from the good things of the chinese.

sorry to burst america and china's bubbles, but currently Russia is in a state that it doesn't want to form an iron alliance with anybody. The anti-west sentiment is especially strong where most of my relatives live.

a reason why i am so happy to be living in canada is that the tolerance of this country is amazing. the chinese festivals, america's independence day, jewish hanukkah, islamic fasts, etc, are all celebrated here and respected for the most part. None of these ever stimluated the intense nationalism i see often on such websites.

can't people enjoy the celebration for itself and not connect it to any political issues?

and to counter what i have read earlier. if china and russia were to have a conflict, i am ashamed to say this, but russia would be the one to push china around. russia have seized much of china's lands by force, and segregated mongolia.

also, unless people know the exact circumstances regarding tibet and xinjiang, don't take sides.

Ksuysha said...

my father was part of an embassy to tibet, and he informed me that he was shocked at the discrepancy between the portrayal on media and his own experience. Most of the tibetans are happy, he said, with the way they are right now. Then he gave me a book that one of the ethnic tibetans gave him, which he translated for me. It seems that Tibet, before communism took over china, has always been part of imperialistic china, along with mongolia. The area was governed by a feudal-like system, in which the ones holding absolute power were the religious leaders such as the monks and Lahma. the peasants were an oppressed group of people who could be used for religious sacrifices and offerings anytime at the discretion of the leaders. when communists entered tibet, they deprieved religion of its power among the people and put the government in its place, and many of the monks were banished from the country. Though it may seem that nothing changed, as one totalitarian ruler is replaced by another, but since it is communism, which emphasizes equality, the communists destroyed the feudal system to which the people were enslaved for so long.

of course there are problems with human right violations and corruption within the CCP, but the good qualities should not be screened.

unlike many of the western minorities, ethnic groups in china enjoy special benefits. for all i know, the uyghurs are given a monthly sum from the government so that, even without a job, they can survive. when commiting the same crime, an ethnic minority will have a less severe punishment than one who belongs to a majority. since uyghurs are a minority, doesnt that also mean that if the province of xinjiang were allowed to vote whether it wants independence, the result would be affirmatively negative??

the one thing that really annoys me is the way america sticks its nose in everybody's business. there are still unincorporated territories of the US in indonesia, the islands of puerto rico. grant them independece would you america? grant quebec independence would you canada? grant greenland complete independence would you denmark? aren't they all, like tibet and xinjiang, areas where the people, the culture, and the language vary from the rest of the country?

who are we to judge whether another country should grant independence to its territories when we don't know the complete story behind them???? who are we to decide how another country's government should be run when we don't know the culture and history of that country's people?

ProTon said...

Ksuysha ...
sorry your assessment is not objective,you are a chinese or else you must be some chinese hired spy.History clearly tells us how much the chinese desired to expand their empire! and What did you say? mongolia is a part of china?? i pity your ignorance...the huns of mongolia and hans of china are bitter rivals throughout the history!
Have you heard of uyghur empire!? call tibetan monks as oppressors and Chinese communists as saviors...what are you trying to prove... deers are hunting the lions???funny fellow...grow up!you are the first person on the earth who tried to search similarities between green land,puerto rico,quebec and tibet,xingjiang...your argument ,assessment collapsed.

ProTon said...

I agree with ying..
i too had same experience with the chinese products...dvd player,battery recharger....even the cordless phone which i bought recently worked for just 100 days! so no more chinese products.

Unknown said...

To Ksuysha:
Let me tell you something about China. it is a land where anything goes to keep the Chinese people under the thumb of the communist government, who have, up to date, killed 25 million Chinese through starvation and countless others through re-education, cursory violence and meaningless conflicts.

For example, the Chinese government says its military budget is 40 billion. Well and good, except it doesn't count the amount used for the People's Armed Police and other internal suppression groups, as well as research and technology, nor its procurement budget, nor the budget accumulated from operating plants and businesses. Like any commies, paranoia is the name of the game, so they will never place all their military strength in one group like the PLA.

For every dollar declared spent on the PLA, 3 other dollars are spent on internal security and stability, and then there's the undeclared stuff.

You still think that the commies are no threat to anyone? You forget the chinese government censuring and attacking Australian film festivals for showing independent films on Tibet, or attacking German book conventions for having 2 dissidents speak. This is a country that does not tolerate any dissent whatever in their own sphere of power, one that is growing. It used to be only to the misery of its citizens, cancer villages, organ harvesting, children selling, rampant prostitution of Chinese women around the world by government-related gangs, etc.

The Chinese man or woman is very pleasant and can be very noble. However, the commies have made him paranoid, violent, slavish, aggressive and money-loving to the point of zero ethics.

In Malaysia, Chinese prostitutes on employment passes were tested to have HIV virus whereupon they escaped back into society and what did they immediately do? Start to hook clients but this time offering additional pleasure of no condoms. The Chinese individual has been oppressed to the point of completely amoral and mercenary. (There are estimated 20 million Chinese women working abroad as prostitutes).

The commies have destroyed the value of being Chinese and thousands of years of Chinese culture. How can you defend a country run by such people? I can't wait for the democratic revolution to start.

Unknown said...

Imagine a country like Korea giving poor Chinese students scholarships to study in their country. These Chinese students, who don't know anything but how to study, have been brainwashed from youth, and taught that anything goes if you receive criticism, because nobody, absolutely nobody can understand what it means to be Chinese.

So these students, allowed into Korea, food paid for an everything, see the peaceful protests of Korean citizens in their own capital about the Beijing Olympics? What did they do? As a mob, they attacked the peaceful protests, beating people to the ground with rocks, shoes and home made weapons, and not satisfied with that, broke into a hotel where a discussion group on the Olympics was being held and tore the place up. Remember, these people were there on the good will of the Korean people.

Imagine an entire society organized along these lines of hyper nationalism and wanton violence, which is usually kept suppressed by even more violent police, but there are tens of thousands of large-scale riots each year in China. Now, how difficult would it be for the commies to mobilize these people into a frenzied mob to attack India, as they already did to Japanese businesses in China when Jap businessmen were filmed screwing chinese prostittues? (the number 1 export of China).

There would be no civil society restraint to hold the commies hand. No one would speak up to the commies if they found it advantageous to attack its neighbours. This is the reason why Korea, Japan, even Singapore are arming like there's no tomorrow (do you need advanced F-15Ks to strike North Korea, especially ones armed with advanced Blk 2 Harpoons?)

The Koreans have woken up. The howl of protests over the behavior of the chinese people was incredible. Don't sleep Asia, there is evil walking in the night.

Unknown said...

What have these parade photos got to do with Tibet, "invading India"?

If you have no time for HIST101, read what the late Dalai Lama and UK/India agreed in Simla, July 1914:

"It's understood by the High Contract Parties that Tibet forms part of Chinese territory"(quoted from proindependence

After the 13th DL died, the Tibetans immediately reaffirmed their subordination, at least nominally, to the Chinese state. Read MC Goldstein's "A History of Modern Tibet", pp240-241

Who was the exact invader? The Indo-Chinese Exchange of Note dated 29 April 1954 ( shows that it was India! Read Articles [1] to [5], the Indians promised to withdraw from several Tibet/PRC areas. *Withdraw*!?

Why Communist China attacked India in the 1960s? India ATM still occupied several Tibetan areas on the *north* of the McMahon Line. Those are Tibetan/PRC territories even by Indian definition. Get yourself a copy of "India's China War" by Neville Maxwell.

Rand McNally maps published in 1914 already show Tibet, including present-day Arunachal State, as part of China.

Ying said...

perhaps you can explain to me about the tibetan version, why dalai lama fled, instead of "accepting" chinese domination?
why tibetans are rebelling chinese domination.
tibet was "NEVER" a part of china except for a short period it was occupied by some han or chin dynasty. at that time there was no CHINA. tibetans have a different language, culture and looks than hans or chins.
how in the hell can rogue china lay a claim on tibet or east turkistan (Xinjiang)?
PRC can program its dum china coolies to any crap and an average chinese will never know the TRUE history. commies ban anything in china which is ominus to their interests.

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